Invitation to Debate... Part 3  

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As I continue my debate of "Christianity vs. Islam", I am going to focus this post on the one, basic, fundamental reason why Islam (or any other religion) simply does not make any sense...

My very good bloggy friend, Maria, always comments so wonderfully on my posts. I love readers like her -- our views differ, yet she can appreciate what I'm trying to say and why I'm saying it. She's one of those loving, peaceful people who embrace all religions and accept them for what they are. I think that's awesome, and I really wish I could be that way. I am taking her principals of "accepting all religions" and basing this post on that phrase. Now, don't misunderstand me -- I love and embrace and accept all people. I simply don't love and embrace and accept all religions. Here's the basic reason as to why:

How do you know you're doing it right?


Let me clarify...

Our pastor recently gave a sermon on how to identify "the win." The message was about understanding how we Americans define success versus what God defines success. In society, such things as wealth, power, status, house, car, vacations, boats, stocks, clothes, brands, toys and reputation are all indicators of "success" in some form or another. I'm sure there are some people out there who would disagree, but to society as a whole this is all true. (Don't believe me? Who are the most watched, most revered, most admired people in our world? Not philanthropists, not clergy, not stay-at-home moms or teachers... they are celebrities! And the more outrageous they are, the more popular they are.)

Yet it's a completely different story to God. The "win" is different according to Christian doctrine. It's all opposite of what American society views as "the win."

First of all, there is one "sure" way to win, or get the prize (meaning eternal life in Heaven with God): Believe in the Lord, and accept Jesus Christ as His son and your savior. Repent and confess all of your sins, and ask for forgiveness. This process requires one to scrutinize past actions, and humble oneself so that he/she can ask for forgiveness. With the prayer to God and the acceptance that Jesus is paying the price of punishment for your sins, you are then "reborn" as a Christian -- one who lives and breathes in Christ. From that point, a person should live as sinless as possible. However, God realizes that we are human, and that we're far from perfect. It's sometimes hard to know what right and wrong is, and sometimes we make mistakes. Sometimes we cannot resist temptation. The Lord gives us the Ten Commandments to live by, as well as several teachings and parables from Jesus and his disciples. It is our duty as Christians to strive to live as much by those teachings as we possibly can. Yet if/when we mess up, we can know in our hearts that we are "saved" and that Christ has taken that punishment from us. As long as we keep those lines of communication open (as well as our hearts and minds) to God and Christ, eternity with the Lord is ours forever.

The Muslim commenter to my recent posts typed/pasted a lot of stuff in his/her most recent comment. Way too much stuff for me to sort through and comment on. However, there was one line that particularly stood out to me:

"Islam tells us that every human being is born pure and free of any sin, and will stay so, until he commits a sin as an adult."


Basic, fundamental Christianity teaches the same thing. But what happens in Islam when an adult does sin? How does one get into Heaven (Paradise, as Muslims call it)? I decided to do a bit of research online, and here's what I found:

(From the website "Understanding Islam"): "The believers will most definitely succeed (in the hereafter). Those who humble themselves in their prayers; who avoid vanities, who are active in deeds of charity; who preserve their chastity except from their spouses and from those whom they own, for they are free from blame, but those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors; and those who faithfully observe their trusts and their agreements; who (strictly) guard their prayers; these will be the heirs; who will inherit paradise, they will dwell therein for ever." (Al-Mu'minoon 23:1-11)

It goes on to say:
So to summarize, according to the Qur'an in principal, "purification" is the qualification that people need in order to reach paradise. To be more specific, it is belief in God and the Day of Judgment as well as doing righteous deeds that makes one qualified for paradise. To see some more specific features of these believers we can refer to verses like Al-Mu'minoon 23:1-11.

The Qur'an also informs us that God is very forgiving and kind and that He is willing to forgive any sins other than Shirk (i.e. believing in partners with God) (Al-Nisaa 4:48 ; Al-Zumar 39:53). This indicates that although we should do our best in acquiring the above mentioned qualifications, God with His vast mercy and kindness does not restrict paradise to those who reach these qualifications in their perfect shape.

So that is the part I don't understand. If the ONLY sin that Allah is not willing to automatically forgive is believing in other gods (or, for example, the Son of God: i.e. Jesus), then what keeps a person from being greedy? Or hateful? Or violent? Or murderous? If every Muslim who believes in Allah knows that in the end, all will be forgiven, why would they need to live a good, honest, wholesome life?

The first verse above talks about humbling oneself in prayer, giving to charity and not being vain. Yet I'm sure that a lot of people who are Muslims aren't like that. In fact, my siblings are not like that. My Muslim sisters do not pray regularly, nor do they give to charity (isn't 2.5% stated as one of the Pillars of Islam?), and they can be quite vain at times. According to the paragraphs afterwards, it's okay that they don't do those things, because Allah is all-forgiving. So let's say hypothetically they take it a bit further. Let's say that I have sisters who steal, who lie and who are greedy. Are they still forgiven? What about if they're violent and abusive? What about if they murder? Have abortions? Degrade others? Extort family members? Molest children? (My sisters aren't like this... I'm just giving an example.) Does Allah still always forgive? EVERYONE goes to Paradise?

I'm just not okay with that. Sure, I'm sure that there are some altruistic people on this earth, but what about everyone else? What about the "bad" people? So (not to lump all Muslims in a group, but I have to ask), what about the terrorists responsible for the 9-11 tragedies? Or Suddam Hussein? Osama bin Laden? Suicide bombers? According to the above doctrine, they are all in (or will be going to) Paradise. How can that be? There is NO punishment? None? No reason to lead a good life here on earth? Nothing to fear?

No offense, but learning that tonight just shed a whole new light on Islam. Of course it's the fastest growing religion in the world -- there is no punishment! There is no clear concept of right vs. wrong, or of Hell vs. Heaven. Sure, if there are a bunch of religions out there and one of them supposedly promotes peace, love and Paradise for everyone... then, duh! I'm not surprised it's popular. But as I stated in my last post: popularity does not equal truth.

I absolutely adore the fact that I know God is full of love and light. But it also makes me feel good to know that there will be punishment, too. It does. I'm sure others feel the same way. There are some really, really bad people on this earth. Everyone deserves forgiveness, but it should not just be a "given" handed out freely with no strings attached. If the doctrine of Islam is true, then one doesn't even need to realize or acknowledge his/her sins -- they don't matter.

But wait... are there are words in the Koran about good deeds and righteous acts? Yes, there are. Here is the same writings from the website that I posted above:

"To be more specific, it is belief in God and the Day of Judgment as well as doing righteous deeds that makes one qualified for paradise.."
And there was also this phrase: "...but those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors;". What ARE the righteous deeds? What are those "limits?" How many is enough? How much is not enough? What exactly are the deeds that get you into Paradise versus the ones that don't count? And do two of one small deed equal one big deed? Does a deed that is done by someone who is rich, healthy, happy and powerful on the same exact level as the identical deed done by someone who is poor, weak, sick and of limited means? What's the grading scale? What defines a sin or a good deed? And what are the quantities/qualities that are enough? In other words, if I'm a Muslim, how exactly do I know that I am doing it right??? According to what I've read above: a) you don't exactly know and b) since Allah is all loving and all forgiving, it doesn't matter.

There are many examples of right and wrong in the Bible. But to base salvation on the level/quantity/quality of a person's deeds would be impossible. Yes, the Bible tells us how to live; those words -- whether via Christ or via prophets -- are the Lord's words. The four gospels are 4 books written by 4 different people who have almost the exact same story about the life and teachings of Christ. There were numerous witnesses to his crucifixion and to his resurrection. Like these other religions, Christianity shows us how to live a good life, and gives us rules to live by. Yet the one thing that Christianity offers that NO OTHER religion offers is this: a clearly stated doctrine that gives no doubt as to who will get Heaven/Paradise and who won't. Mankind was so deep in sin that God offered us a way out of it... a "pass" so to speak. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

In order to get that pass, a person only has to do a few simple things: acknowledge and confess all sins... believe in God with all his heart/mind/soul... and recognize that Jesus died so that we don't have to take the punishment that we earned for ourselves by sinning. Of course, because we have given that burden to Christ, most true Christians try to live out their lives just as God has instructed via the Bible. We do this because we are grateful for the chance at salvation, and we recognize all the things we've done wrong. If I did something that earned me capital punishment and my biological father stepped in to die and take that on my behalf, you bet your butt I'd be humbled. And I'd honor him by living a good, clean, honest life.

What in the religion of Islam forces one to be humble and repent? Or to live a good, clean life? How could a quiet, respectful, humble woman feel good about herself when the lying, cheating, murderous man next to her gets the same reward?

There is no definition of "the win" -- meaning a successful life that earns the ultimate reward -- in Islam. I did some reading earlier on Judaism as well, and it was even more muddled than Islam. I could not find exactly what one needs to do to get eternal life in Heaven with God, nor what that afterlife is exactly like, nor what specifically constitutes a "successful" life versus one that isn't successful.

That's why, in my humble opinion, Christianity is the only religion that makes sense. There is a clear, true definition of salvation. There is punishment for the wicked, reward for the righteous, and a way for the wicked to "right oneself" and become reborn so that they could have salvation, too. This principle is very similar to what we humans have here on earth today. If one breaks the law, they get fined or go to prison. The sentence fits the crime (usually). But if one becomes rehabilitated while imprisoned, there is hope for parole. Christ is our parole. Yet if someone is happy that they are wicked and would continue to live that way without remorse, then they will have punishment for life. I simply cannot accept a religion where murderers, thieves, molesters, terrorists and rapists could be loved, accepted and welcomed into Paradise without any requirement of repentance, or punishment or asking for forgiveness.

Jesus is not blasphemy, as my Muslim commenter stated. He is a Gift from God. He is our "pass" -- our salvation. A way to know without a doubt that we will be with the Lord in Heaven after our lives here on earth are done. We should not deny Christ -- we should embrace Christ and thank God for Him. Through Christ we can have a clear, direct, "successful" path to God.

"Therefore God exalted him [Jesus] to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11)

"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes." (Romans 1:16)

Comments are welcome! Please feel free to share your thoughts.

This entry was posted on Thursday, May 1, 2008 at Thursday, May 01, 2008 . You can follow any responses to this entry through the comments feed .

5 comments

Anonymous  

The Doctrine of Resurrection is an important article of the Islamic faith. The book of Islam declares that the human race shall cease to exist on this planet, and that on a certain day, appointed by God and known only to Him, every human being will be brought back to life again and required to give an account for what he had done during his lifetime. Every individual will receive on that day a reward or punishment according to his good or bad deed:

"Everyone on it (the Earth) passes away, and there endures forever the might of your Lord, the Lord of Glory and Honor." 55:26-27

"And they used to say: When we die and become dust and bones, shall we then be raised? Say: The ancients and those of later times will surely be gathered together for the appointed hour of a known day." 56:47-50

Although the concept of the Hereafter is beyond the area of our human experience, it does seem to be logical. To be consistent, we have to subscribe to this doctrine. We believe in God and His justice. The Just God, Who is All-Powerful, is not expected to leave a good doer without a reward, nor should we expect Him to leave an oppressor unpunished. Millions and millions of good doers, oppressed and persecuted, lived and died without being compensated. Millions and millions of wrong doers, persecutors, murderers, and tyrants lived and died without being penalized in this world. The Just God Who is All-Powerful, should not let such wrong doers escape His punishment, nor should He leave the good doers uncompensated. There must be another world in which there will be an ample time for implementing the heavenly justice.

The Holy Qur'an bases the necessity of the Hereafter on the concept of the heavenly justice:

"On that day (the Day of Judgment) men will come forth as scattered individuals, so that they may be shown their works.So whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it, and whoever does an atom's weight of evil will see it." 99:6-8


Islam commands its followers to avoid many things. Some of them are prohibited because they contradict some of the doctrines in which a Muslim is supposed to believe. Some of them are prohibited because they are immoral or unethical or unhealthy or because they represent disobedience to the devotional duties. These prohibitions may be regarded as Islamic commandments, the violation of which may constitute a major sin. A Muslim is prohibited:

To ascribe to God a partner or associate:

"Associate not any other god with the Almighty, lest thou sit down despised forsaken." 17:22

To deny revelation of God to His prophets.

To deny any of the prophets who are recognized by the Qur'an, such as Jesus, Moses, Abraham, and Noah. The denial of the revelation or any of the recognized prophets is a denial of Islam.

To lose hope in mercy of God:

"...And despair not of the mercy of God. Surely none despairs of the mercy of God except the disbelieving people." 12:87

To swear in the name of God falsely:

"Hast thou not seen those who take for friends a people with whom God is wrathful? They are neither of you nor of them, and they swear falsely, while they know. God has prepared for them a severe chastisement. Evil indeed is what they do!" 58:14-15


To kill a human being premeditatively.

"And slay not the soul which God has forbidden except for the just cause.... " 17:33

"Your lives and properties are sacred and inviolable amongst you, until you appear before your Lord.... " said the Prophet.

To be traitor to the right cause of one's own nation.

To help defeat it militarily by retreating at the battlefield when the nation is defending itself against aggression:

"And whoso turns his back to them (the aggressors) on that day (of fight), unless maneuvering for battle or turning to join a company, he indeed incurs God's wrath and his refuge is hell, and an evil destination it is." 8:16

To steal.

To cheat in measuring or weighing in selling or purchasing:

"Woe to the cheaters. Who when they take the measure (of their dues) from the people, take it fully, and when they measure out to others or weigh out for them they give less than is due." 83:1-3

To insult one's own parent:

"And thy Lord has decreed that ye worship none but Him, and do good to the parents. If one of them or both of them reach old age with thee, say not "Fie" to them, nor chide them, and speak to them kind words. And lower to them the wing of humility of mercy, and say: My Lord, have mercy on them as they brought me up (when I was) little." 17:23-24

To commit adultery:

"And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an obscenity. And evil is the way." 17:32

To scandalize people, especially women:

"Those who love to see that scandal should circulate concerning the believers, will have a grievous chastisement in this world and the Hereafter, and God knows, while you know not." 24:19

"Those who scandalize virtuous, believing women (who are) careless, cursed are they in this world and the Hereafter. Theirs will be an awful doom, on the day when their tongues, their hands, and their feet testify against them as to what they used to do. On that day God will pay them their just dues, and they will know that God is the Manifest Truth." 24:23-25


In many passages from the Holy Qur'an, the belief in the Hereafter is placed next to the belief in God. This shows that the belief in the Hereafter is more important than any other article of the Islamic faith after the belief in God:

"Surely those who believe (in Islam) and those who are Jews, and the Christians . . ., whoever believes in God and the Hereafter and does good, they have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them nor shall they grieve." 2:62

"They believe in God and the Hereafter, and they enjoin good and forbid evil and vie one with another in the good deeds. And those are among the righteous. " 3:114

May 2, 2008 12:07 AM
Anonymous  

I married a muslim and now have children with him. I am not muslim and I probably never will be. I don't consider myself attached to any religion. I live my life as I believe God would want me to (not perfectly and not without sin but I try). Before marrying my husband I did ALOT of research on Islam. Not just on the internet (you cannot believe most of what you read.) I bought books and a English translated Quran went to the library and talked to muslims and my very Christian best friend (we have been friends for 15 years and still are best friends) and her family. Islam made alot more since to me than Christianity ever did but I do not agree or understand every thing with Islam either. I do believe it is a very pure and beautiful religion. If followed, it helps you live a wholesome and honest life.
When doing research on Islam, you cannot take every translation literally (the same with Christianity). The time the Holy Books were written were so different than now. Just like sayings and the language spoken today is much different than it was in the 50's, 60's, 70's and etc.

I know my comment is a bit of rambling but is frustrating to me when people try to debate on something they don't know much about. You are taking very small excerpts that you found on the internet and debating them. You would have to read and understand so much more of the Quran or Bible to be able to denounce them. My biggest problem with Christianity and something that I liked about Islam is that most Christians are judgemental and "pushy" with there religion. Most Muslims live their lives believing in their religion for themselves and don't try to push the religion on anyone else. It matters what you believe on the inside and how you live your life. Christians (not all but many) seem to feel they have to prove to everyone else that they "believe" and that they are good "Christians". Only God needs to know. It seems like such a competition between Christians.

Sorry about the rambling, I have alot on my mind with this and I'm not a good writer like you so it's hard for me to type it (and my 2 year old is not cooperating with me right now).
Brandy

May 2, 2008 10:37 AM
Maria  

Maria,

Interesting-I do not know enough to contribute, refute, or debate. If Islam or any religion condones heinous (or not much is written on it) behavior such as murder it seems a good way for people like that to hide behind the belief of their religion. The God I know (in my heart) is how you describe. I do not read the Bible as I am conflicted with some of what it does state. I am open and accepting of many things as long as no one harms others. I believe in Heaven and Hell. I believe that God loves everyone but that does not give one an automatic pass to enter (Heaven) upon their death. I learn through you and others. Take care.

May 3, 2008 4:05 PM
Anonymous  

hi, just stumbled upon your blog. i just wanted to say that i have to say that i don't see much of a distinction between Islam and Christianity in this case. Christianity does not say that you have to pay for your sins. Every born again Christian that i have spoken to says that all you have to do is accept Christ as your savior. you can do wrong again and again as long as you repent. i believe that fear is not a good motivator, anyway. it is not long lasting. i think that god places joy in our hearts when we do things that serve the greater good and that is what motivates loving Christians and Muslims to live the lives they lead.

May 3, 2008 5:03 PM
Anonymous  

"Islam tells us that every human being is born pure and free of any sin, and will stay so, until he commits a sin as an adult."

Basic, fundamental Christianity teaches the same thing.

I take issue with this statement. The Bible does NOT say that we are born pure. The Bible says in Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" In Romans 3:10, "As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one:"
This means all of us. we are sinners when we are born...because of original sin. However, as children we are innocent of that, so a child, until they know the difference between right and wrong is shown mercy for his ignorance.

April 18, 2009 7:14 PM

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